What does war look like? Sarah talks with U.S. combat veteran Tara Madison, Syrian refugee Ahmad Al haj ali, and peacekeeping consultant and Canadian Armed Forces veteran Janie DesJardin about the reality of war.
What does war look like? Sarah talks with U.S. combat veteran Tara Madison, Syrian refugee Ahmad Al haj ali, and peacekeeping consultant and Canadian Armed Forces veteran Janie DesJardin about the reality of war.
Sources Consulted:
TRTWorld. (2017, August 11). Mother who lost 4 children in Syria gas attack recalls day of Horror. Retrieved June 21, 2022, from https://www.trtworld.com/mea/opcw-says-chemical-sarin-used-in-deadly-attack-on-syria-town-in-april-390645
YouTube. (2017, June 23). The war in Syria: Children suffer losing their families. YouTube. Retrieved June 21, 2022, from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXgxWgsjIjA
* If you have a question about war, or if there’s something else going on in the world that you want us to break down, write to us or record a message and email us at listen@akidsco.com.
Follow the show on Apple Podcasts or wherever podcasts are found and check out other podcasts made for kids just like you by visiting akidsco.com.
Sarah Jones Breaks It Down: A Kids News Podcast
S1 EP04, War Part 3: A Ground Floor View
[INTRODUCTION]
Sarah: This is Sarah Jones Breaks It Down.
I’m Sarah, and I’m here to help us better understand what’s happening in the world.
Why?
Because, as a journalist, that’s my job.
And this world isn’t just filled with adults…
Kid: Nope!
Sarah: It’s our world.
So, every week we’ll talk about the stories that you may overhear some adults talking about like war, or elections and we’ll…
Group of Kids: Break it down.
Sarah: And we’ll break it down.
[TOPLINE]
Sarah: War isn't usually talked about from all different sides with kids.
That's why we've spent the last few episodes breaking it down. We've talked about war, what it is and who it impacts.
You may have seen war scenes in movies, but is that what it actually looks like?
Tara Madison is a US combat veteran who served in Afghanistan.
Tara: No matter where you're at. It's a lot of waiting around for certain missions.
Sarah: And sometimes when a war is happening in one part of the country, the other part of the country is completely safe with no signs of bombings or guns or anything.
Janie DesJardin is a veteran of the Canadian military. While in the military she served in Afghanistan and Bosnia.
But now that she's retired from the military, she's a consultant and she was just helping aid agencies in Ukraine a few weeks ago.
Janie: Um, I just finished my mission in Ukraine.
Sarah: And, um, you know, when you see Ukraine on TV, it is continuous bombings. Um, destruction, is that the entire country, does the west look like that as well?
Janie: No. The west is very, the west is very safe.
So the fighting it's all in the east and in the south. So there it's real war. So every day, they have something that is being launched it looks like the houses are being destroyed, and it's very dangerous.
But in the west, like 10 of last in the west, it's safe, safer than Canada. So they don't have any fighting there for now.
[BREAKDOWN]
Sarah: But that’s just skimming the surface. So let’s talk to some people who have witnessed war first-hand, whether as members of the military, peacekeepers or civilians.
Civilians are people who aren’t involved in armed groups or the military.
How do wars begin? There isn’t always a single moment like in Ukraine when Russia invaded. Or in Sudan when the power sharing agreement expired.
Sometimes the conflict starts and people don't even realize at the moment that what's happening is escalating into a war.
For example, in 2011, a group of teenagers in a small Syrian city, near the border with Jordan called Dara, spray, painted some graffiti on a wall that read quote, it's your turn doctor.
But Syria, like many, if not most countries around the world is one where free speech isn't legally protected right like it is in America under the constitution.
And usually that means that criticizing the government or the president as the kids did in their graffiti, usually gets people in their families, imprisoned, killed or disappeared.
Ahmad is from Dhara. He was just a kid when this all started.
Ahmad: You can’t really talk about it, it's (uh) politics. Anything about a sad family. Anything about governments, uh, family.
You can't, you can't mention nothing about it. You can't really give an opinion.
You can't really mention it. Even you can like against. Um, you, Bassar, or like you, government or whatever, it's, you know, you can't really say that. Um, it's, it's tough. It's really tough because sometimes
Ahmad: …They arrest people and they put them in jail. Now the 78 D and the 90, and the 2000 you go to any prison in Syria. There's, there's a ton of people inside.
They never done anything wrong. They just spoke up. They just say something.
Sarah: So when the government captured the teenagers responsible for the graffiti, people took to the streets, demanding their release.
Ahmad: The people that were saying, “No. No. It's fake. It's fake. It just in the sky. They are shooting in the sky. You don’t worry about it. Keep, keep don't go anywhere. …Till the first person fall on the ground. They know it's real.
Sarah: But it was the reaction of the protestors to the live ammunition that made the world realize, things were different this time. This wasn’t just about the teenagers, this was freedom and change.
Ahmad: …. One of the protestor said
Ahmad: … In Arabic it's almawt wala almadhlah.
Sarah: Which loosely translates as “Death is better than living in disgrace.”
Ahmad: .... So to show how much those people, they have have a believe and they message to show how, how much those people, they not scare from to die.
Those people that were there, they were like, oh, okay, kill me. If you want to kill me, kill me.
Sarah: That’s when Ahmad, that’s when the world, saw, Syrians were willing to die to see a change in their country that they felt would make it more equal for every citizen.
But equality requires those who are in power to give up some of their power to empower others.
But a lot of people don't like giving up power, even if it means equality.
Friday is commonly a day for protesting in the Middle East.
Ahmad:...And every Friday it was, it was a day where people die because the regime,
Ahmad: The worst things people hate is, is it's, uh, when a helicopter come up, because when they are throwing those bombs,....
And that's really bad because when, when, when, uh, when the bomb come, it, it can actually hit like over six floor or seventh floor building … It can be in the ground from that bomb
... if you behave. They kind of forget about you a little bit, but if you don't behave, …like …all the time protests….they bombs everyday, everyday, everyday.
…I didn't stay in my house. I all the time sit outside and just look how the bombs is going down. It just something you just used to it and you don't want to go inside the house. If you want to die, die the white hot dive and see how you're going to die.
Sarah: As a US combat veteran, Tara spent most of her time on base in Afghanistan.
Tara: Um, where I was at, it was, it was a small base and it was considered a blackout bay. So there was no lights at night. Um, but really you just, you had the same routine, cause there really wasn't much to do you woke up, you either went to the gym or you ate, or you did your personal items that you had to do and then you, it was just a continuous cycle.
Sarah: But she could still hear blasts going on outside, beyond of the walls.
Tara: just a really loud like boom, uh, people yelling, you can hear shots being fired. So it sounds like what you hear, like in the movies. Just a lot louder.
Tara: Probably what's changed me the most is being more aware of my surroundings and just really watching. And being more, I don't know…
Sarah: Like hypervigilant?
Tara: Yes. That is a good word.
Sarah: And in war, people die.
Tara: Um, you always have that feeling of being afraid of not knowing, like, what's going to happen next or the next day. Um, I did have a battle buddy that I lost, not when I was there. Um, but he was actually stationed in Iraq back in 2009 and him and a couple of his battle buddies, um, lost their lives.
Ahmad: Well, in my small town where, um, uh, five people die, uh, they net, they are like, one of them in my family
Sarah: Ahmad is one of the lucky ones. He and his entire immediate family made it out of Syria. But I remember the stories of two families I shared from the war that were far too common.
One was of a young brother and sister who lost both their parents and were being raised by their older cousin, who was still quite young himself.
I also remember a mother, who lost all four of her children when her home was hit by a chemical weapon while she was at work. Chemical weapons are illegal. But in life, there will always be people who break rules.
But at the end of this series we’ll talk about the rules of war, and an international court that holds war criminals accountable.
Ahmad: You have people that bring the product and they sell it over there is where it's a lot of people walking around. It's kind of, you can say as a bazaar. So usually people go every Sunday to that there and buy stuff from there. Um, I remember where multiple times where people go over there and they started throwing bombs and a lot of people got killed because it's, uh, it's a lot of people up there.
Sarah: But not all the pain and wounds from war are visible
Sarah: And what's your hope for Syria in the future?
Ahmad: Uh, to be honest with you, the hope is gone.
Tara: Although there is a lot of violence and destruction and hate and lies, it can still bring countries together and communities together and unite them.
Janie: Probably the most difficult day for me is also when I actually leave. When I have to leave and I have to say goodbye to everybody that I was working with.
In Afghanistan, in 2004, I was working with a woman interpreter and we have just one for the company mission. So this woman, she was very, very brave. She was coming on patrol with me and she was putting your life in danger every day
To make sure that women in Afghanistan to be able to speak to us.
So for me, she was very, very important. And at the end I have to leave and to let her behind because you know, someone else have to take to come back. So for me, it was like, I was not there to protect her anymore.
But the good news now is that she she's in Canada. So at the end of like, yeah, she wants able to join the Canadian population.
Sarah: And just to clarify the interpreter who was risking her life, she was risking her life because the Taliban were still, um, ruling and. And that was kind of the biggest threat? Is that accurate?
Janie: But also because of the population, you know? Because of the culture. Because she wasn't married and she have to come to work with just men.
So she didn't receive a threat just from the Taliban. She received threat from the other interpreter because the other interpreter didn't want her to work there because it's not the place of a woman to work.
Sarah: But this interpreter was welcomed by other local Afghans.
Janie: The woman were welcoming her. The woman were happy that she was there to be able to translate.
Sarah: War? It’s ugly and violent.
But amid that are people who selflessly give to others.
And humans, we’re pretty resilient.
So it’s not surprising that some who have seen the ugliest sides of war still believe things can improve.
Remember my friend Hozan Ibrahim? We spoke with him last week. He’s a journalist from Syria.
He still believes things may get better in the future.
Hozan: I always have a hope that the war in Syria will come to an end and there will be a democratic ruling where everyone will live in a peace and freedom.
[UNDER-REPORTED]
Sarah: So now you know a little bit more about what wars actually looks like.
They’re scary, chaotic and can cause a lot of big feelings. And whatever you’re feeling or if you don’t feel anything that’s ok.
The important thing to remember is that wars do eventually come to an end or a lull. Sometimes they end with a compromise or treaty where the groups involved in the fighting agree to give and take. Sometimes they end because of a change in government leadership.
Leo: They can only fight so long, but it's not for the rest of the world to tell the Ukrainians stop fighting. Let the Russians have another 10-15% of your country. Let them blackmail you. And just in essence, shut up and be quiet.
We're not going to do that. I'm sure. So there may be a standoff at some point until, at some future time, uh, things change.
The very best scenario, this is my opinion, but I don't think it’s going to happen any time soon, is it the Russian government changes.
And here, while I've used the name Putin a lot, the truth is wars are not started by one person. They may ultimately make the decision to do so, but all governments, even authoritarian governments rely on hundreds. In fact, thousands of people who are willing to follow orders, who are willing to say, “Oh, yes, I believe in that lie, even though really I know it's a lie because, somehow it makes me feel better. It makes me feel more powerful or it gives me more income because I'm an official of Putin. Or maybe I'm a businessman who has done me favors. So I have a lot of money. So I'll pretend that I support him.”
Lots of reasons. It's not just one, man.
But if the government of Russia change, uh, in the more democratic way that, I don't think that will happen soon, uh, we could, we could put an end to the war.
Sarah: Across the equator and sea, tensions are brewing elsewhere in the world
and it has watchers concerned.
Things are getting tense between the Democratic Republic of Congo (also referred to as DRC) and Rwanda who share a border in Africa.
It’s something you probably haven’t heard a lot about in the news or haven’t heard people talks about. But on this podcast we know that…
Group of Kids: Everyone matters.
Sarah: So let's get into it.
The DRC and Rwanda have had a rough go at diplomatic relations since the Rwandan genocide in 1994. That's when a lot of people trying to flee violence and Rwanda ended up in east DRC.
The DRC has publicly accused Rwanda of supporting the M 23 rebel group. It's the first time in 20 years that the DRC government has formally made such an allegation. And then on the other side of the border.
Rwanda says that the DRC fired rockets at it and that two Rwandan soldiers have been kidnapped
And are allegedly being held by another rebel group in east DRC called the democratic forces for the liberation of Rwanda or FDLR. So analysts are afraid this could be a flashpoint. Do you know what a flashpoint is? A flashpoint is a point in time when an event takes a turn. So that's the moment that things escalate to a point of no return.
And there are some reports that would start it as tensions between Rwanda and DRC have now escalated to actual fighting between DRC forces and M 23 on several fronts in a province in the DRC, which borders Rwanda called north Kivu.
We'll be watching this closely and keep you posted on what transpires.
And let us know if you'd like a future episode focused solely on the DRC.
[CLOSING]
Sarah: Thank you for listening and for breaking it down with me today.
If you have a question about what war looks like or the DRC, or if there's something else going on in the world that you want us to break down, write to us or record a message and email us at listen@akidsco.com.
Sarah Jones Breaks It Down is written and reported by me, Sarah Jones. You can learn more about me and my work at sarahjonesreports.com.
Our show is edited and produced by Matthew winner with help from.
Our show is edited and produced by Matthew Winner with help from Chad Michael Snavely and the team at Sound On Studios.
Our executive producer is Jelani Memory. And this show is brought to you by A Kids Podcast About.
Follow the show on Apple Podcasts or wherever podcasts are found and check out other podcasts made for kids just like you by visiting akidsco.com.
Thank you for hanging out with me and stay curious!